ENC 1101: Writing Academic Arguments

v. POPSMART: reading, writing & thinking critically through popular culture.

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Prompt #4
typewriter love
kayleythomas wrote in uf_enc1101
Walker and Daum both discuss the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty - summarize their arguments, where you think they might disagree with each other, and where you stand on the issue after reading their arguments and checking out some examples of the Dove campaign below:

The Dove Campaign for Beauty page

Dove's overall company web site

A Google image search of some of the Dove ads


Do a search online and/or in men's magazines for underwear. Are your findings similar to the kind of marketing that Trebay discusses? Provide a link to one ad/web site and describe what kind of pathos you think that it is using. In turn, what essentially is Trebay's argument? Do you agree or disagree, and why?

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The major difference in opinion between Walker and Daum to me seemed to be that Walker seemed less enlightened by this advertisement. Daum seemed to be in more support of the idea as compared to Walker who mostly stated opinions, as in almost indifferent.

I personally am a fan of this advertisement. It makes the women who watch it feel like they are fine the way they are, that they don't need to change to fit the stereotypical model image to be accepted. They can be who they are and be happy. Like Walker states, "...enough counting carbs, enough lectures from Dr. Phil...," so now they can just be themselves.

In these two articles Rob Walker and Meghan Daum both discuss the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty. They analyze this very controversial campaign and its effect in society, especially on women. Walker explains Dove has work for a couple of years in this project and even though the six models can be considered beautiful they are not supermodels. They make women more self-confident and strong on their own skin; even if they don’t buy the product. On the other hand, Daum thinks this campaign is just a political movement. She believes Dove is trying to sell women a cure for their realness, by using “real” women to advertise cellulite firming cream.
I agree with Walker’s argument, these women are not completely “real”. However, the six models are much better than others that show how women are supposed to look. When only a small amount of us look like that and for consequence they hurt our self-esteem. Real women are not only skin and bones or “perfect beauty”. We come in different sizes and shapes and that is what makes us more beautiful. For these reasons our society should be more open-minded to advertisement, such as, Dove Campaign for Real Beauty.

Dove's Real Women Campaign

The two articles written by Daum and Walker had opposite viewpoints. You had the first viewpoint of Walker who you sensed throughout their whole article felt that even though Dove's objective was for a "Campaign for Real Beauty" they did not accomplish this. Walker based their argument around the point that these women also are not completely real women either.
Daum on the other hand, sums up her entire viewpoint in the last line of her article saying "Leave this work to the pros girls, real women have better things to do." In the article Daum accuses Dove of using these "real" women in advertisements for cellulite cream. Daum makes a statement along the lines that they're using "real" women to advertise products to help rid women of their realness.
I feel that overall the purpose of Dove's campaign can be double-sided at times. They use it at times to appeal to the "real" women but at other times they use it to their advantage as with the example of the cellulite cream advertisement. Overall, I'd agree with Daum's argument because I feel that it's more well-rounded.

In the two articles Rob Walker and Meghan Daum express their opposing view points regarding the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty. While Walker sees the advertisement as a way to boost the self- confidence of women who are more than skin in bone and should still be considered to be beautiful. Although Walker does argue that these six women these women aren't completely "real. Walker uses more of a pathos argument. On the opposite side of the spectrum Daum views the ads as nothing more than a political movement to sell these so called "real women" the "cure for their realness", cellulite firming cream. Daum uses more logos in her argument.

After reading these arguments I feel there are clearly two motives behind the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty. Although they may want to appeal to non-supermodel "real" women, Dove also utilizes the very same cure for "realness" to sell their cellulite cream. As an entirety I would agree with Daum's argument because it looks at the article and poses an answer to what caused the decision to use real women. Daum points out what could be considered the irony of the advertisement.

Rob Walker seems to provide more quotes from magazines rather than take a stand on whether this a good or bad Dove is dong. He talks about these models starting up a stir with the media, taking a stand to hat a "real" women looks like
Meghan Daum kind of sides with the Dove campaign and what they are doing. These models show society how shallow people are in thinking a women is suppose to be a size zero and tall. The Dove campaign is showing us that you don't have to be super skinny, you can have some meat on your bones and pose for billboards.
I think the Dove Campaign is doing a great thing in changing things with the models. I think through their actions it will give women more self confidence and they wont be so insecure with the way they look.

The articles that Rob Walker and Meghan Daum wrote express their different view points about the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty. Walker views the advertisement as a way to increase confidence of women who are more average and not supermodels. When Walker argues that the women are not completely real, or average, he uses pathos. Daum views the ad being more of a advertisement to appeal to women considered average or real. She uses more logos.
After looking at both sides of the argument, you can tell that Dove Campaign want to appeal to the “real women” of America. I agree with Daum’s argument because it seems like she is judging the commercial based off of what the commercial is about; selling Dove products.


After searching online for men's underwear ads, it was evident that Trebay's points about the marketing was quite true. Men's underwear shopping is much more complex and sexual than it used to be years ago and I agree with the thoughts of Trebay on the current marketing strategies used for men's underwear. Almost all the ads were of men only in designer underwear and nothing else. Also, like Trebay said, the models were athletic guys with wash-board abs. The ad I found, is advertising Armani underwear with David and Victoria Beckham. This ad cleary uses pathos to draw in the reader/viewer. The ad shows the two lying in a room, giving the viewer a feeling of relaxation; something everyone enjoys and does almost daily. Also, since the ad is black and white it appeals to the eye, there are no obnoxious colors to distract from the product.

Walker tells us that with a big corporation like Dove, the ads are hard to ignore. Marketing becomes the form of communication thats everywhere. He tells us that people respond more to the attitude they symbolize rather than what they actually sell. Walker reacts more positively to the campaign than Duam. She believes the campaigns are hypocritical because they are selling cellulite cream to these "real" women. She says its "a cure for their realness". These models represent ourselves in our own room, while professional models show their bodies without invading our privacy. She thinks we should leave the modeling to the pros.

I think that the Dove campaigns are beneficial. They give a positive message, and they show people other images of women rather than the typical size 0 model.

Both Walker and Daum criticize the Dove campaigns while at the same time criticizing people's reaction to it. Walker makes a point that had a University openly criticized the media and all of the advertisement's use of thin models, controversy would be held to a minimum. But, because a big corporation with a huge budget started a media campaign, suddenly everyone is listening. Daum agrees that the beauty campaigns show society's shallow and narrow minded views, but she also openly criticizes the hypocrisy behind the campaigns, stating how ridiculous it is to tell women to be comfortable in there own skin, yet Dove is trying to sell cellulite cream which tells us "real" women are fat and need help.

Honestly, I do prefer the idea of someone other than a size zero being displayed on ads. But at the same time, I could care less who is used in marketing campaigns because these ads don't ever sway me one way or the other. Its ridiculous to think that I'm simply going to purchase Dove lotion because they put "real" women on billboards, when maybe other products like Neutrogena or Aloe are better and maybe even healthier. I commend Dove for the attempt, but at the end of the day, Dove's incentive isn't to expose "real" women, its to make a profit by trying something different. Dove is owned by Unilever, as Walker kept pointing out in his article. Its a very significant detail because Unilever is also the same company that owns Axe, highly known for distributing what I think is the most sexist advertisements ever.

I definitely agree with the claims of Trebay. All the men in underwear ads are built and flexing their muscles in the pictures, when the ad is only for their underwear, not how to get a six pack.


This site is a link to a picture of a man and a woman laying down on top of one another. This underwear ad uses Pathos to appeal to the customers sense, that if I wear this underwear I can get girls.

Walker and Daum are basically agreeing on the point that the Dove ad has made women overlook the fact that they are buying a firming lotion by appealing to their emotions through pathos. The term "real" is referring to women that are not characterized as ultra thin fashion models. Walker states that this ad is pretty clearly a publicity bonanza for the Dove brand while Daum states that the ad campaign is a political movement. Walker expresses a more positive thought of the ad. She says that it is making women more confident because Dove is expressing the idea that happiness and kindness are what make a woman beautiful. Daum is taking the approach that this ad is downgrading women, and making them believe that they are beautiful.
I think this ad is being used for publicity and to gain more consumers. Not only do they want super models buying their products, they also want "real" women buying them as well.

The two authors, Rob Walker and Meghan Daum, wrote their reactions on Dove’s Real Women for Beauty Campaign. Rob writes on the positive aspects of the campaign when he states, “enough counting carbs, enough lectures from Dr. Phil, etc.” He agrees with the ads and sees them as only promoting the message of being secure with ones appearance. Daum, on the other hand, discusses some of the negative aspects. She goes on to say how these Dove ads are somehow an “invasion of privacy.” All in all, the two authors make interesting points which are both supported by their varying viewpoints and opinions.

To sum it all up, Walker basically is for the "non-sexy" models for Dove and Daum is against the plus side models for Dove.

Walker and Daum can probably go on it forever about comparing "real women" to "pro model" for a product.

Although plus side models may be unattractive to some viewers and most likely draw attention away from the product completely, it has its pros.
"Attributes of making a women beautiful and happiness and kindness." Quoted by Rob walker, I agree with this statement because 86 percent of Americans are overweight and can not fully express their body to the public. And Dove advertising "non perfect women" can give those women who feel like they can not reveal there body true happiness. Not at women have the perfect curve and body that can show off to the public. So all models can come in different shapes and sizes that can still sell the product. It really contradict one another.
21st century to me revolves around a lot of sexual things that makes the consumer buy a product. Rather than buying a product that is really dull and "disgusting" looking.

In our readings, Rob Walker and Meghan Daum convey their views by exploring the true messages being sent to individuals through the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty. Rob Walker’s view expounds upon the fact that the Dove campaign has been essentially successful in portraying its message towards women of figure, or “real” women. He explains how the models used in this campaign are natural and relatable to a vast majority of women. The campaign doesn’t utilize the “cookie-cutter” standard of a model to portray its message. Contrastingly, Meghan Daum believes that the Dove campaign is not nearly as effective and is actually paradoxical. She explains how the campaign portrays “real” women who are comfortable with their body image. However, the company is selling a product to help alter or “firm” cellulite issues, basically removing the actual or real image of women who are supposed to be “comfortable” with their body image.
My opinion is that Dove’s ad campaign meant to cause no harm but actually sent an ambiguous message to the market. Both authors have valid arguments, however Daum presents a compelling view of the irony presented by Dove, as confident “real” women change their body image through a product. If women are to be confident with their bodies, why is Dove marketing and selling products to remove their “realness”?

Rob Walker's explains how Dove has been successful in its message to the public dealing with "real women". The explanation goes on with him mentioning how the woman are natural and relatable and they do not use the expect model that everyone thinks. Daum is in fact in favor of plus size models and thinks that Dove could be more effective if they were to use these models instead. In other words Walker is just in favor of natural and Daum is in favor of feign.
In my opinion by Dove putting natural women gives a clear message to women who do not have a perfect body that outer beauty is not all that important.

the arguments made within the two articles did disagree because in daum article she said that the average woman has better things to be doing and should leave the modeling to the skinny girls. were as walkers agrument made a point that no matte what the size every women should feel beautiful. to me personally i think all women should be treated equally regardless of size, because if you have the guts to get up there and sell yourself for ads then what should it really matter what size you wear or your weight. all women are beautiful and have something special about them. its just that the media really needs to let it go that skinny is not in anymore, because the thicker you are the better you look.

http://www.undergear.com/SLP/Underwear.asp?code=macs%3DUG9GOKW&cm_guid=1-_-100000000000000020186-_-3202819905&cm_mmc=GO is the first website that came up when i typed men underwear in a "ask Jeeves" column search.When looking at several different website on men underwear Trebay's reasoning's are held to high trues because i found my self seeing similar adds and advertisements with men half naked.The pathos that the website is using is ethos because it sell there product by advertising it with what is seen to be attractive men but the popular belief of society.

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